Scottish Independence Podcast 172 – Clive Ponting

16452911295.jpgThe 172nd episode of The Scottish Independence Podcast is a speech given by Clive Ponting.

Ponting is a famous whistleblower who exposed the UK Government over the sinking of The Belgrano, an act many believe to be a war crime. He has also authored a number of books exposing various levels of skulduggery and/or incompetence at Whitehall.

This episode comes from a recent talk he gave in which he goes into those things, but also why he now resides in Scotland, why he loves it, and why he supports Scottish Independence.

(And from me a wee thanks to Phantom Power, he knows why).

Hope you enjoy.

You can download the show directly if you click THIS LINK.

You can listen online at the show’s spreaker webpage, or you can subscribe with itunes. We can also be found on youtube and on facebook.

These podcasts are independently minded and independently funded, you can help to keep them going by making a donation.

d6ewnplT.jpg large


This documentary, from BBC Alba, is essential viewing for anyone from the UK or Ireland but particularly Scottish people. It is also essential viewing for anyone with an interest in politics in general and constitutional issues.

It catalogues the history of obstacles placed in the way of the Scottish Independence movement over the years by the London government . While some of it will be well-known to some of you, a lot of it will be new I suspect.

The first part is here and the links to the next parts are on the continuation page…



I think this should be a useful reminder before tomorrow of how well the Unionist parties have represented Scotland in Europe.

These are the populations and number of people in European parliament for some of the smaller countries in Europe.

Can you see which one appears to be different? If you can, can you work out why that might be?

Malta = 403,532                   MEP’s = 5

Luxembourg = 486,006    MEP’s = 6

Cyprus = 792,604                MEP’s = 6

Estonia = 1,307,605            MEP’s = 6

Slovenia = 2,007,711         MEP’s = 7

Latvia = 2,245,423              MEP’s  = 9

Lithuania = 3,700,000     MEP’s = 13

Ireland = 4,156,119            MEP’s 13

Scotland = 5,062,011 MEP’s = 6

Finland = 5,244,749          MEP’s = 14

Slovakia = 5,455,407        MEP’s = 14

Denmark = 5,484,723       MEP’s = 14


Nicely and succinctly put by Ralph Nader…and it is pretty much exactly the same process as in most allegedly democratic countries…

“You have a tug of war with one side pulling. The corporate interests pull on the Democratic Party the way they pull on the Republican Party. If you are a ‘least-worst’ voter you don’t want to disturb John Kerry on the war, so you call off the anti-war demonstrations in 2004. You don’t want to disturb Obama because McCain is worse. And every four years both parties get worse. There is no pull. That is the dilemma of The Nation and The Progressive and other similar publications. There is no breaking point. What is the breaking point? The criminal war of aggression in Iraq? The escalation of the war in Afghanistan? Forty-five thousand people dying a year because they can’t afford health insurance? The hollowing out of communities and sending the jobs to fascist and communist regimes overseas that know how to put the workers in their place? There is no breaking point. And when there is no breaking point you do not have a moral compass.”


In this one I speak with Professor David Miller of the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, Scotland.

David Miller is the author/co-author/editor of several books including “A Century of Spin: How Public Relations Became the cutting Edge of Corporate Power” and “TELL ME LIES. Propaganda and Media Distortion in the Attack on Iraq.” He is also the co-founder of and He occasionally appears on the BBC too,  including this rather amusing one from Newsnight.

In fact, in this podcast we discuss the BBC, it’s history and origins, how it has been controlled and manipulated by governments and how all this fits into the wider media context.

I hope the production is a little better on this one than the last.

If you go to THIS LINK HERE then you can listen to it online or download it as an mp3. You want the VBR MP3 link where it says ‘Audio Files’.


Hope you like it and thank to for making a great little service.


Before you read this please find and read some of the testimony from witnesses and those who lost family or friends that day [appropiate links at the bottom of the article]. I am not a Liverpool supporter and I never lost anyone I know that day.

I can’t write about the event because I wasn’t there but I do know what I have heard thousands of football fans who went to games at that time say, and it includes me, which is simply “that could have been me”.

I also know that although some of the problems that led to the disaster that day have been greatly improved upon, others have not.

The things that have been improved [not perfected] are stadium safety and the general policing of football matches.

The things that haven’t are the police and the media’s reaction and attitude to crowds in general and their reluctance to admit it when they get it wrong.

As a University of Glasgow Media group study about the media and peoples reaction to the miners strike found…

Everyone who had been to a picket line (both police and pickets) believed that most picketing was peaceful. But a majority of those who relied on information from the media believed that it was mostly violent.

And so it was with football.

The attitude of the people in control at football matches and their lack of concern could be seen in earlier incidents like the Ibrox Park disasters and the Bradford City Stadium fire in 1985. In Bradford the fire was started when [probably] a cigarette was dropped and fell through the wooden stand and ignited the rubbish below.


There were no extinguishers in the stand’s passageway for fear of vandalism, and one spectator ran to the club house to find one, but was overcome by smoke and others trying to escape. Supporters either ran upwards to the back of the stand or downwards to the pitch to escape. Most of the exits at the back were either locked or shut, and there were no stewards present to open them, but seven were either forced or found open. Three men smashed down one door and at least one exit was opened by people outside.Geoffrey Mitchell said: “There was panic as fans stampeded to an exit which was padlocked. Two or three burly men put their weight against it and smashed the gate open. Otherwise I would not have been able to get out.At the front of the stand, men threw children over the wall to help them escape. Most of those who escaped onto the pitch were saved.

So the people were penned in, with many escape routes closed and no way to put out the fire because the authorities believed they might misbehave. What is more, similar to the Hillsborough disaster, the media have reported the actions of fans unfavourably…

American television network FOX TV controversially aired footage of the disaster in the programme When Good Times Go Bad 3. They incorrectly blamed supporters for deliberately starting the fire; and the program used punning language such as “as rabid as American fans can get, they can’t hold a candle to soccer fans around the world”. David Pendleton, the editor of Bradford City F.C.’s fanzine, stated that the programme was “a vile and callous piece of journalism”  Copyright of the TV footage of that day’s events is strictly controlled by Yorkshire Television and the footage is only meant to be used for fire awareness training purposes.

Distasteful to say the least.

Interestingly, after other incidents like these in other countries such as Heysel Stadium disaster and the collapse of a stand in France, as THIS documentary explains, there were prosecutions and sackings. That just doesn’t happen in Britain.

I was fortunate never to see anything like this but any Celtic fan who was there will tell you that the day Celtic played Dundee the year before Hillsborough could easily have been a major disaster as most Celtic fans agree that Celtic FC at that time had a somewhat creative attitude to giving attendance figures and the stadium was dangerously overcrowded. I imagine most people who went to matches at that time have a memory of a game where it was particularly dangerous.

The season before Hillsborough I went to a few games. The Hillsborough season I went to almost every Celtic home game and occasionally to Aberdeen games if Celtic were playing away. This was because I had one brother that supported Celtic and another that supported Aberdeen . Our father didn’t like us to go to games without him so there was a lot of sneaking out involved. My Aberdeen supporting brother would take me along to the Aberdeen games sometimes because I think he wanted someone to go with and it gave him a better excuse. Usually I would go to the Celtic games with the Celtic supporting brother and sometimes I would go alone.

Conditions at most Scottish grounds were primitive at the time and in some of the early matches I went to I made the mistake of standing with my chest in front of the crush barrier. When a goal was scored and everyone jumped forward I got wrapped around the barrier and had to wait till everyone pushed back before I could disentangle myself. I realised how dangerous this was fairly quickly and from then on got to the stadium early and stood with the barrier at my back so that when they all rebounded after jumping down I could at least see them coming and try to position myself in the safest [or least dangerous] way.

The day of the disaster I watched it happening on BBC as Celtic were playing on the Sunday. I remember how the initial thoughts about the crowd fighting or being disruptive melted away. Those were the first thoughts of many people that day because there were some problems with hoolignanism at that time although, as usual, there were no serious attempts to consider sociologically why, except to blame the victims along with the perpetrators and to  treat all football supporters like animals. The Thatcher government with the ID card scheme and the media had in tandem demonised the supporters. Just as the government and the media had done with the miners and just as they now do with the protestors.

So just a few days after 96 people had been crushed to death and many more injured due to police incompetence to, the bereaved, injured and traumatised were treated to this…

And this was after TV cameras showed supporters ripping down advertising boards to stretcher away the injured.

I can’t remember exactly but I think the next game I went to after the disaster was Hearts V Aberdeen at Tynecastle [Hearts’ stadium]. It was unlike any game I had ever been to. There was a greatly reduced number of fans and for most of them, even though Aberdeen were seriously involved in the league race, the game was mostly an irrelevance. People sang songs supporting the Liverpool fans, abused the police in general and mostly directed their anger against the fact that a similar kind of fence to the one that had been used to pen people in like animals at Hillsborough had still not been torn down. “Get your fences to f*ck” and so on were the songs of the day.

It was a great show of solidarity and I daresay it was replicated at many football grounds in the UK and elsewhere at the time. That and the memorial game with Celtic V Liverpool a couple of weeks later showed me that the fans cared about the bigger picture even if some others didn’t, as is illustrated by this from David Conn in the Guardian

In a dusty library at the far end of the Houses of Parliament, among 10 boxes of documents relating to the Hillsborough disaster which were made available by the South Yorkshire police following a government order some years ago, is a statement from a police constable on duty that day.

On the front page is a handwritten instruction from a more senior officer. “Last two pages require amending,” it notes. “These are his own feelings. He also states that PCs were sat down crying when the fans were carrying the dead and injured. This shows they were organised and we were not. Have [the Police Officer] rewrite the last two pages excluding points mentioned.”

So although today is about an anniversary for the people who died at Hillsborough and their families, it is also about the others who died not at the same incident, but from the same disease.

For the Hillsborough disaster and so many other appalling incidents in the UK, no one has been brought to account.

Justice for the 96 and others.

Here are some links about the disaster..

Hillsborough Families Support Group

Hillsborough Stories

Sean’s Posts about it – Sean has a serious involvement with the disaster.



From the Online Scots Dictionary

scunnert – scunnered [‘skʌnərt -d, U. ‘skʌndərt -d]
disgusted, bored, fed up, have ones hopes or expectations shattered

And from the blog scunnert-nation [thanks] comes this entirely believable video.

You see, if you believe the hype then democratically [ahem] elected leaders are supposed to represent the views of their constituents and their nations. They are supposed to exress our will, not force us to get in line with theirs.

Let’s suppose for a moment that this system works beautifully and that each leader expresses the views, hopes and wishes of his countrymen.

Isn’t it a little strange then that the leaders of two completely different countries on opposite sides of the world could have their constituents want them to say EXACTLY THE SAME THING…

Yes, that was the Prime Ministers of Canada and Australia both saying the exact same nonsense.


Here’s what I think the truth is: We are all addicts of fossil fuels in a state of denial, about to face cold turkey. And like so many addicts about to face cold turkey, our leaders are now committing violent crimes to get what little is left of what we’re hooked on.

Kurt Vonnegut

The ice gets thinner, the planet gets hotter and still people turn on those christmas lights and won’t turn off that TV or other useless appliance.

Governments continue to do nothing except give lip service to the issues whilst simultaneously trying to expand air travel and boost the car industry.

And the journalists still have to put in last [or second last] lines to every article [quotes or not] saying how it might all be alright and we don’t have to start really worrying yet.

Don’t say you weren’t warned…

This is from the BBC

Changes ‘amplify Arctic warming’

Scientists say they now have unambiguous evidence that the warming in the Arctic is accelerating.

Computer models have long predicted that decreasing sea ice should amplify temperature changes in the northern polar region.

Julienne Stroeve, from the US National Snow and Ice Data Center, told a meeting of the American Geophysical Union that this process was under way.

Arctic ice cover in summer has seen rapid retreat in recent years.

The minimum extents reached in 2007 and 2008 were the smallest recorded in the satellite age.

“The sea ice is entering a new state where the ice cover has become so thin that no matter what happens during the summer in terms of temperature or circulation patterns, you’re still going to have very low ice conditions,” she told the meeting.

Autumn return

Theory predicts that as ice is lost in the Arctic, more of the ocean’s surface will be exposed to solar radiation and will warm up.

When the autumn comes and the Sun goes down on the Arctic, that warmth should be released back into the atmosphere, delaying the fall in air temperatures.

Ultimately, this feedback process should result in Arctic temperatures rising faster than the global mean.

Dr Stroeve and colleagues have now analysed Arctic autumn (September, October, November) air temperatures for the period 2004-2008 and compared them to the long term average (1979 to 2008).

The results, they believe, are evidence of the predicted amplification effect.

“You see this large warming over the Arctic ocean of around 3C in these last four years compared to the long-term mean,” explained Dr Stroeve.

“You see some smaller areas where you have temperature warming of maybe 5C; and this warming is directly located over those areas where we’ve lost all the ice.”

Wider changes

If this process continues, it will extend the melting season for Arctic ice, delaying the onset of winter freezing and weakening further the whole system.

These warming effects are not just restricted to the ocean, Dr Stroeve said. Circulation patterns could then move the warmth over land areas, she added.

“The Arctic is really the air conditioner of the Northern Hemisphere, and as you lose that sea ice you change that air conditioner; and the rest of the system has to respond.

“You start affecting the temperature gradient between the Arctic and equator which affects atmospheric patterns and precipitation patterns.

“Exactly how this is going to play out, we really don’t know yet. Our research is in its infancy.”

The study reported by Dr Stroeve will be published in the journal Cryosphere shortly.


Well done Ireland for showing us the way against the odds again. As my friend Lonesome sparrow points out, the ‘No’ campaign was outspent 20 to 1.

Despite that, the people of Ireland have rejected the Lisbon Treaty by 53.4% to 46.6% meaning that the treaty in its current form cannot be adopted as EU policy.

He further says what I have been repeating for some time…these reforms that certain of the power and business people want keep coming up in different forms. I am sure they are already planning the next way to try and deceive the people of Europe into accepting these manifestly unpopular measures.

Whenever this has come up for a referendum, the people have said no. Long may it continue.

Thank you Ireland.

The result has put me in a good mood so here is some party time stuff for friday night…